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[Music]

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it was basically a cube with inside of

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sphere where the points of the cube

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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so this isn't anything that just is

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limited to the united states it's a

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that ufo podcast is powered by zen

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caster zencaster is one of the world's

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leading platforms for recording and

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hosting podcasts zencaster is a modern

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web-based solution for high quality

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audio and video podcast production with

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a full suite of professional tools

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zencasa allows podcasters to quickly and

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seamlessly record their guests remotely

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and produce their podcasts and studio

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quality check out the links in the show

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description to find out more

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i am george knapp listening to that ufo

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podcast and having one hell of a good

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time

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i think when i haven't seen these videos

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i've had them described to me

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from what i've heard if they were

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released it would be game over

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i think you would then have an absolute

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avalanche of media interest

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and public interest in seeing the

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phenomenon investigated and the full

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story told

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and perhaps that's why

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they've kind of

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halfway there thing where they've said

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okay the research that we've done for

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the uap task force it only starts from

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2004 from the tic tac incident and i

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don't think that's a coincidence

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they've completely cut out the history

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of alleged craft retrievals the history

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of recovered meta materials

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the history of investigations into

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alleged

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archaeologically discovered

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landed

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found crashed craft

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now if it's untrue come out and say it's

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untrue

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i dare you you know seriously if if it

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really is untrue

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that the us

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has recovered craft because they've lied

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about it once in 2011

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say it now

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why did donald trump when his son don

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trump jr asked him shortly before the

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election in 2016. that's right in 2020

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why did donald trump suggest that he

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knew something about roswell and it's

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very very interesting and i'd like to

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tell you more about that but not right

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now

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donald trump said that the president of

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the united states last last year

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intimated that he'd been told something

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about the roswell

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incident that was very interesting

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and believe me i know a politician when

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he knows something that he doesn't want

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to tell you

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i know that look

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and that was the look that donald trump

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had he was relishing and enjoying that

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secret knowledge

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why did barack obama during the

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the period in the month or so prior to

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the release of the uap task force report

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why did he give such credibility

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to a question that was asked of him

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about the anomalous phenomena that's now

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being reported by the u.s navy

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it was clearly a pre-prepared and

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well-considered answer because

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when he answered and it's on the web he

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made it very very clear that there is a

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phenomenon that is real that is

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deserving and worthy of further

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investigation he didn't mock it he

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didn't ridicule it

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and this is what i find infuriating

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because you've got mainstream media

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still to this day i mean i've had

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conversations with journo mates i had a

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conversation with one in london earlier

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on today

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and he um

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he went oh how's your how your tinfoil

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had crazies roscoe you know and and

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that's the way it's that's the level at

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which they pitch and i was saying to him

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i said mate seriously you guys this is a

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very big british newspaper are saying

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you guys

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need to be looking at this issue i said

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there is a cover-up happening

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and he just laughed he went oh my god i

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gotta go you know and there's an

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embarrassment about it because i think

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people just don't have the wherewithal

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to actually inform themselves and i

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guess frankly that's what i tried to do

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with my book i i set out like i always

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am as a kind of a skeptical observer

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and i guess i expected at the bottom of

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it all to find yes there are craft

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flying around you know the black

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triangles from 1980s show that there was

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definitely some kind of solid object

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flying over western europe in the late

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1980s but i was assuming eventually we

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were going to discover it was some kind

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of aerospace technology that either the

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us or russia or somebody had developed

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but the deeper i got into it the more i

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got absolutely fascinated by the fact

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that there is a really genuine mystery

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here

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somebody's lying

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and and frankly the only way you can

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call out a lie

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in a democratic country is by applying

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pressure and asking questions

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and that's why your audience is more

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powerful and more empowered than it

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realizes you need to get on the phone

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start writing letters to your

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parliamentary representatives let the

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prime minister know that you care about

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this is an issue

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rattle the cage

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because the wheel that squeaks gets the

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ross i think that's a really good place

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to move on to some listener questions

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for you because you've touched on a few

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points that dave wanted to ask do you

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think that a combination of fear of

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public outcry powerlessness and not

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wishing to cede a defense advantage to

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russia or china explains the ufo cover

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up or would you would care to share any

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firstly i i think the claim that they

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haven't revealed this information

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because they're worried about a public

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outcry is bollocks it's absolute rubbish

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and i think the millennial generation is

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more prepared for the possibility of

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intelligent

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non-human life than any generation

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before it you know our media is super

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saturated with that possibility

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and i think they're open to it

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religion has diminished to such an

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extent that i don't think it has the

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hole it once had outside of the pentagon

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i'm told there are a number of religious

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zealots in the pentagon who are trying

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desperately to stop us investigating the

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phenomenon because it's demonic or

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satanic

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but

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what i do think is persuasive is let's

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hypothesize for a moment

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let's consider the possibility that the

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united states is in possession of

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recovered technology let's assume

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they've got a working spacecraft and

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let's assume they've possibly even been

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able to fly it

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but let's assume they are completely

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flummoxed as to how it's powered

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and to how to replicate it and they've

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been trying to replicate it since

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1947 don't know why i picked that date

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what do you reckon the reality is i

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suspect

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that's what's been going on

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and i think that the cold war

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created

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the culture of secrecy that has

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surrounded this issue for the last 76 77

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years

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but the reality is that culture the

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reasons for that secrecy no longer hold

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although

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i will concede this

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if i was

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in possession of this technology

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i wouldn't be telling that ufo podcast

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about it until i knew everything i knew

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about it

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until i knew how to master that

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technology

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and

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for what it's worth one of the things i

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was told when i was in the united states

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was that the russians have also

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recovered technology the chinese

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apparently haven't

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and apparently there's a huge cold war

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race going on to replicate and back

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and i'm told also that's one of the

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reasons why the chinese have been taking

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an extremely close interest in american

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defense not just because they want to

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get the plans for the f-35 or the f-22

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but because they're also trying to find

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out what it is that the united states

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government knows about antigravitics and

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alternative propulsion systems and power

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systems free energy

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let's consider that as a hypothetical

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if you had possession of that technology

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and you were the president of the united

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states

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i reckon you'd keep it secret

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and i don't blame them for lying about

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it i'm just calling them out on the lie

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i'd lie about it too hell i'd keep it

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secret but i think we're at a really

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interesting junctioner

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because

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frankly the polls show the majority of

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americans think the government is lying

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to them about ufos

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and there's a certain thing i believe

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which is the wisdom of the crowd as a

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journalist i've learned over the years

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to read the mob

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and often the mob is way ahead

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of government policy

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and i think the crowd

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you know the average punter as we call

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them in australia

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um

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i think you guys call them the clap the

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man on the clapham omnibus

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um

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they uh

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they basically called it years ago

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they they think this is bs that the

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government is hiding something

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and uh

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you know it's funny i was i was talking

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to somebody the other day about

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the

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extraordinary number of sightings of

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black ufo triangles over the united

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kingdom

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and they sent me a

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national archives british national

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archives is it still national archives

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is it public records i can't remember

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but it's your national archives and in

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there there's a document that is a file

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that pertains to this 1983 period

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and oh

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what a surprise

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it's there in the national archives

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files and it's locked up until 2087

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now it was suggested by one skeptic that

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the reason why it's locked up is purely

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and simply because there's private

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information that there are the names and

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the addresses of witnesses now that's

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bollocks because i've spoken to

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witnesses who gave evidence in

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australian ufo files that are kept by

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our defense department

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one of them was a soldier i rang him the

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other day and his name and address were

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in the file and i tracked him down after

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it was 40 years later

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and he was quite happy to be talking to

284
00:11:17,430 --> 00:11:14,720
me and he knew that under the national

285
00:11:20,069 --> 00:11:17,440
archives laws those privacy protections

286
00:11:22,230 --> 00:11:20,079
only lasted for 30 years there's a

287
00:11:24,470 --> 00:11:22,240
presumption of release

288
00:11:26,949 --> 00:11:24,480
so why the hell did the british

289
00:11:30,470 --> 00:11:26,959
government keep secret a ufo incident

290
00:11:32,949 --> 00:11:30,480
that took place in january 1983

291
00:11:36,230 --> 00:11:32,959
what possible reason could there be for

292
00:11:39,190 --> 00:11:36,240
keeping that data secret for over 100

293
00:11:41,670 --> 00:11:39,990
now

294
00:11:42,870 --> 00:11:41,680
i said to my friend who told me about

295
00:11:44,949 --> 00:11:42,880
this i said

296
00:11:47,030 --> 00:11:44,959
why don't you put an foi in and ask for

297
00:11:48,389 --> 00:11:47,040
an explanation what's the exemption that

298
00:11:50,389 --> 00:11:48,399
they're applying

299
00:11:51,990 --> 00:11:50,399
and if it's a personal privacy exemption

300
00:11:54,069 --> 00:11:52,000
to protect the anonymity of the people

301
00:11:55,670 --> 00:11:54,079
that gave evidence then that's [\h__\h]

302
00:11:57,829 --> 00:11:55,680
and it should be released it should be

303
00:11:58,790 --> 00:11:57,839
challenged in the courts

304
00:12:01,509 --> 00:11:58,800
but

305
00:12:03,910 --> 00:12:01,519
i don't understand why

306
00:12:06,790 --> 00:12:03,920
people don't realize

307
00:12:08,389 --> 00:12:06,800
that in plain sight to quote the title

308
00:12:10,389 --> 00:12:08,399
of my book

309
00:12:12,310 --> 00:12:10,399
there is a cover-up going on

310
00:12:14,550 --> 00:12:12,320
governments are basically hiding

311
00:12:16,470 --> 00:12:14,560
information on the phenomenon

312
00:12:18,710 --> 00:12:16,480
and frankly if they're as mystified as

313
00:12:21,190 --> 00:12:18,720
we all are by the phenomenon why not be

314
00:12:24,150 --> 00:12:21,200
open about it why not disclose it why

315
00:12:25,430 --> 00:12:24,160
hide it why conceal data why hide

316
00:12:27,670 --> 00:12:25,440
information

317
00:12:30,389 --> 00:12:27,680
why lie through their teeth about what

318
00:12:32,389 --> 00:12:30,399
happened at ralph bentwater's rendelsham

319
00:12:34,470 --> 00:12:32,399
i mean when you hear as i have charles

320
00:12:39,430 --> 00:12:34,480
holt colonel charles holt the american

321
00:12:41,910 --> 00:12:39,440
colonel who went into that forest in

322
00:12:44,870 --> 00:12:41,920
christmas 1980

323
00:12:46,710 --> 00:12:44,880
when you hear his account of what he saw

324
00:12:50,710 --> 00:12:46,720
and what happened subsequently and then

325
00:12:52,870 --> 00:12:50,720
you hear the lame explanations from

326
00:12:55,110 --> 00:12:52,880
debunkers who assert that all it was was

327
00:12:57,269 --> 00:12:55,120
a lighthouse light

328
00:12:59,509 --> 00:12:57,279
they haven't stood as i have in that

329
00:13:01,509 --> 00:12:59,519
forest with a compass and looked at

330
00:13:03,190 --> 00:13:01,519
where he says he was standing and where

331
00:13:04,790 --> 00:13:03,200
the lighthouse light was and actually

332
00:13:07,110 --> 00:13:04,800
done those measurements

333
00:13:09,590 --> 00:13:07,120
why do we so glibly accept the

334
00:13:12,150 --> 00:13:09,600
assertions of debunkers and

335
00:13:15,110 --> 00:13:12,160
armchair pundits who speculate about

336
00:13:17,590 --> 00:13:15,120
reasons and once any remotely plausible

337
00:13:19,430 --> 00:13:17,600
explanation is given it's seized upon

338
00:13:21,190 --> 00:13:19,440
because it's a prosaic explanation that

339
00:13:22,150 --> 00:13:21,200
makes us feel more comfortable about our

340
00:13:24,310 --> 00:13:22,160
world

341
00:13:26,310 --> 00:13:24,320
why do we hide from the possibility that

342
00:13:29,030 --> 00:13:26,320
there is indeed something quite

343
00:13:31,590 --> 00:13:29,040
extraordinary that is being hidden by

344
00:13:33,350 --> 00:13:31,600
your government by my government and by

345
00:13:35,110 --> 00:13:33,360
the us government

346
00:13:36,949 --> 00:13:35,120
and and frankly you know why does the

347
00:13:38,870 --> 00:13:36,959
british public for example put up with

348
00:13:40,470 --> 00:13:38,880
the fact that somebody in official

349
00:13:42,550 --> 00:13:40,480
dermis decided to keep a document

350
00:13:44,150 --> 00:13:42,560
confidential for no good reason for a

351
00:13:46,389 --> 00:13:44,160
hundred years

352
00:13:48,949 --> 00:13:46,399
rattle the cage guys get in there start

353
00:13:49,750 --> 00:13:48,959
kicking teeth these politicians work for

354
00:13:51,350 --> 00:13:49,760
you

355
00:13:53,189 --> 00:13:51,360
not the other way around

356
00:13:55,590 --> 00:13:53,199
and if they tell you you can't have it

357
00:13:57,189 --> 00:13:55,600
take a legal case challenge it

358
00:13:59,269 --> 00:13:57,199
people have got to stop asking start

359
00:14:01,030 --> 00:13:59,279
sorry start asking questions

360
00:14:02,470 --> 00:14:01,040
you know one of the things that people

361
00:14:05,829 --> 00:14:02,480
say to me is what are you going to do

362
00:14:07,750 --> 00:14:05,839
about this i'm one person

363
00:14:09,990 --> 00:14:07,760
people are empowered with freedom of

364
00:14:12,629 --> 00:14:10,000
information laws and they don't seem to

365
00:14:14,710 --> 00:14:12,639
realize that national archives laws have

366
00:14:17,430 --> 00:14:14,720
essentially a presumption of release and

367
00:14:19,670 --> 00:14:17,440
they're separate from foi legislation

368
00:14:22,310 --> 00:14:19,680
once the 30-year rules up you have a

369
00:14:24,230 --> 00:14:22,320
presumption for release

370
00:14:26,710 --> 00:14:24,240
and so i'm using that a lot in my

371
00:14:27,829 --> 00:14:26,720
research i don't use the foi act much

372
00:14:29,910 --> 00:14:27,839
because it's a bit of a joke in

373
00:14:31,350 --> 00:14:29,920
australia but the national archives laws

374
00:14:33,509 --> 00:14:31,360
are fantastic

375
00:14:36,550 --> 00:14:33,519
and people should they should be going

376
00:14:38,230 --> 00:14:36,560
back and looking at the history

377
00:14:41,030 --> 00:14:38,240
one of the things that fascinated me in

378
00:14:43,590 --> 00:14:41,040
my book was going back and looking at

379
00:14:44,790 --> 00:14:43,600
the history of the ref bentwater's base

380
00:14:46,790 --> 00:14:44,800
in suffolk

381
00:14:49,430 --> 00:14:46,800
and i discovered in

382
00:14:51,750 --> 00:14:49,440
the condon report that one of the few

383
00:14:54,310 --> 00:14:51,760
cases that they were begrudgingly

384
00:14:56,069 --> 00:14:54,320
acknowledging they couldn't explain

385
00:14:58,550 --> 00:14:56,079
was an incident that had been very

386
00:14:59,829 --> 00:14:58,560
rigorously investigated also by project

387
00:15:01,670 --> 00:14:59,839
blue book

388
00:15:03,829 --> 00:15:01,680
where they frankly admitted they were

389
00:15:06,230 --> 00:15:03,839
confounded it was objects that were

390
00:15:09,350 --> 00:15:06,240
tracked on multiple independent radar

391
00:15:11,350 --> 00:15:09,360
systems in the 1950s that were flying at

392
00:15:12,949 --> 00:15:11,360
thousands of kilometers thousands of

393
00:15:13,910 --> 00:15:12,959
miles an hour

394
00:15:15,750 --> 00:15:13,920
and

395
00:15:17,990 --> 00:15:15,760
dozens of witnesses including fighter

396
00:15:19,509 --> 00:15:18,000
pilots saw them up close

397
00:15:21,829 --> 00:15:19,519
and

398
00:15:23,430 --> 00:15:21,839
this sighting to me

399
00:15:25,829 --> 00:15:23,440
was something i mentioned very briefly

400
00:15:27,910 --> 00:15:25,839
in my book but it gobsmacked me why

401
00:15:30,949 --> 00:15:27,920
hadn't i heard about this why hadn't the

402
00:15:33,350 --> 00:15:30,959
witnesses been videotaped or interviewed

403
00:15:35,509 --> 00:15:33,360
what's going on here you know what

404
00:15:37,269 --> 00:15:35,519
do we just give up and wait for

405
00:15:38,389 --> 00:15:37,279
governments to sort of spoon feeders

406
00:15:41,509 --> 00:15:38,399
with whatever they're going to give us

407
00:15:43,749 --> 00:15:41,519
in a 50 60 75 years time

408
00:15:45,509 --> 00:15:43,759
frankly the only way people are ever

409
00:15:48,310 --> 00:15:45,519
going to find out about this is becoming

410
00:15:51,670 --> 00:15:48,320
more proactive and by asking questions

411
00:15:53,110 --> 00:15:51,680
and making it a political issue for

412
00:15:55,430 --> 00:15:53,120
white hall

413
00:15:57,430 --> 00:15:55,440
for your parliament for my parliament in

414
00:15:58,710 --> 00:15:57,440
australia and for congress in the united

415
00:16:00,150 --> 00:15:58,720
states

416
00:16:01,829 --> 00:16:00,160
and i've been talking to people in

417
00:16:03,829 --> 00:16:01,839
russia it's the same thing i've spoken

418
00:16:06,949 --> 00:16:03,839
to russian generals who've told me about

419
00:16:09,030 --> 00:16:06,959
sightings that they witnessed personally

420
00:16:11,189 --> 00:16:09,040
that remain unexplained that are

421
00:16:13,749 --> 00:16:11,199
recorded in soviet archives that have

422
00:16:15,590 --> 00:16:13,759
also been covered up and sat on

423
00:16:17,350 --> 00:16:15,600
and so i know this is a very long-winded

424
00:16:19,189 --> 00:16:17,360
answer long-winded answer but you know

425
00:16:22,069 --> 00:16:19,199
what i suspect

426
00:16:25,509 --> 00:16:22,079
i suspect our military and intelligence

427
00:16:28,310 --> 00:16:25,519
services are so [\h__\h] incompetent they

428
00:16:30,310 --> 00:16:28,320
don't want to have to admit they have no

429
00:16:32,949 --> 00:16:30,320
bloody idea

430
00:16:35,269 --> 00:16:32,959
and at the bottom of it is it's a bunch

431
00:16:37,350 --> 00:16:35,279
of alpha males who are entrusted with

432
00:16:38,870 --> 00:16:37,360
billions of dollars a year and in the

433
00:16:41,269 --> 00:16:38,880
us's cases

434
00:16:43,110 --> 00:16:41,279
trillions over many years

435
00:16:45,910 --> 00:16:43,120
trillions of dollars being spent on

436
00:16:48,870 --> 00:16:45,920
defense and national security

437
00:16:51,189 --> 00:16:48,880
and yet they cannot assure the american

438
00:16:52,949 --> 00:16:51,199
public that they can protect them

439
00:16:54,550 --> 00:16:52,959
against a phenomenon that is doing in

440
00:16:56,230 --> 00:16:54,560
their airspace

441
00:16:57,670 --> 00:16:56,240
they cannot even say that they can

442
00:16:59,670 --> 00:16:57,680
explain it

443
00:17:01,670 --> 00:16:59,680
it's bewildering them

444
00:17:03,110 --> 00:17:01,680
so i suspect the real reason for the

445
00:17:05,990 --> 00:17:03,120
cover-up

446
00:17:08,630 --> 00:17:06,000
is and this is a journalistic maxim i've

447
00:17:11,189 --> 00:17:08,640
gone by for most of my career

448
00:17:12,870 --> 00:17:11,199
always assume a screw-up before a

449
00:17:15,189 --> 00:17:12,880
conspiracy

450
00:17:17,510 --> 00:17:15,199
i think somewhere there's a dweeb

451
00:17:18,390 --> 00:17:17,520
general there's a nerdy little air force

452
00:17:20,470 --> 00:17:18,400
officer

453
00:17:23,110 --> 00:17:20,480
who just doesn't want to have to admit

454
00:17:25,189 --> 00:17:23,120
he has no bloody idea

455
00:17:27,669 --> 00:17:25,199
it's as simple as that

456
00:17:29,669 --> 00:17:27,679
but i do suspect that somewhere at the

457
00:17:31,350 --> 00:17:29,679
apex of the military hierarchy

458
00:17:33,669 --> 00:17:31,360
especially in america

459
00:17:36,470 --> 00:17:33,679
there are one or two people who really

460
00:17:37,750 --> 00:17:36,480
do know what's going on

461
00:17:39,830 --> 00:17:37,760
and they're keeping the rest of us

462
00:17:42,390 --> 00:17:39,840
ignorant

463
00:17:45,270 --> 00:17:42,400
and i suspect the real answer

464
00:17:49,110 --> 00:17:45,280
lies in private aerospace

465
00:17:51,990 --> 00:17:49,120
this secret was privatized decades ago

466
00:17:53,750 --> 00:17:52,000
they saw you coming anna has a question

467
00:17:55,590 --> 00:17:53,760
she wants to know how does ross

468
00:17:57,669 --> 00:17:55,600
reconcile the fact that chris mellon

469
00:17:59,990 --> 00:17:57,679
said he wasn't aware of crash retrieval

470
00:18:01,990 --> 00:18:00,000
or back engineering programs but louis

471
00:18:04,549 --> 00:18:02,000
elizondo said that the government does

472
00:18:06,390 --> 00:18:04,559
have materials retrieved from a craft

473
00:18:09,669 --> 00:18:06,400
it's a wonderful inconsistency it's a

474
00:18:13,029 --> 00:18:09,679
very good question anna and uh

475
00:18:14,390 --> 00:18:13,039
more recently christopher mellon admits

476
00:18:16,789 --> 00:18:14,400
that

477
00:18:18,070 --> 00:18:16,799
he may have had the wool pulled over his

478
00:18:19,909 --> 00:18:18,080
eyes i mean the thing i found

479
00:18:21,669 --> 00:18:19,919
fascinating about melon when i started

480
00:18:22,630 --> 00:18:21,679
researching it

481
00:18:27,190 --> 00:18:22,640
is

482
00:18:29,669 --> 00:18:27,200
intelligence committee as a young man

483
00:18:31,590 --> 00:18:29,679
and this is a guy by the way who is

484
00:18:33,270 --> 00:18:31,600
independently wealthy one of the most

485
00:18:35,190 --> 00:18:33,280
wealthy people in america the melon

486
00:18:38,150 --> 00:18:35,200
family he's just driven by a notion of

487
00:18:39,430 --> 00:18:38,160
public service hugely admirable likable

488
00:18:41,270 --> 00:18:39,440
person

489
00:18:42,549 --> 00:18:41,280
and he's thrown himself into public

490
00:18:45,029 --> 00:18:42,559
service

491
00:18:49,270 --> 00:18:47,270
he's just the sort of guy

492
00:18:51,830 --> 00:18:49,280
you would want to go and investigate a

493
00:18:54,630 --> 00:18:51,840
ufo cover-up

494
00:18:56,950 --> 00:18:54,640
and believe me i think he tried

495
00:18:59,350 --> 00:18:56,960
just like dick tomato who was in exactly

496
00:19:01,350 --> 00:18:59,360
the same role richard demato about 30

497
00:19:03,590 --> 00:19:01,360
years before him

498
00:19:06,950 --> 00:19:03,600
and if you read jacques vallee's

499
00:19:10,310 --> 00:19:06,960
forbidden science vol 4

500
00:19:11,750 --> 00:19:10,320
richard damato is lamenting that he as a

501
00:19:13,830 --> 00:19:11,760
senior staffer on the senate

502
00:19:15,029 --> 00:19:13,840
intelligence committee which arguably

503
00:19:17,430 --> 00:19:15,039
funnily enough

504
00:19:19,590 --> 00:19:17,440
probably had higher clearances than

505
00:19:21,270 --> 00:19:19,600
chris did in his role as the deputy

506
00:19:22,310 --> 00:19:21,280
assistant secretary for defence go

507
00:19:23,669 --> 00:19:22,320
figure

508
00:19:25,029 --> 00:19:23,679
um

509
00:19:26,390 --> 00:19:25,039
he couldn't get access to this

510
00:19:28,310 --> 00:19:26,400
information

511
00:19:30,070 --> 00:19:28,320
and i think the reason why anna is

512
00:19:31,669 --> 00:19:30,080
because of what i mentioned earlier it's

513
00:19:33,270 --> 00:19:31,679
because it's locked up in private

514
00:19:37,110 --> 00:19:33,280
aerospace

515
00:19:39,270 --> 00:19:37,120
i uh i strongly believe that if

516
00:19:41,270 --> 00:19:39,280
something has been recovered

517
00:19:43,669 --> 00:19:41,280
it was kept inside the department of

518
00:19:45,110 --> 00:19:43,679
energy for decades

519
00:19:47,510 --> 00:19:45,120
until

520
00:19:49,190 --> 00:19:47,520
the 1970s when the freedom of

521
00:19:51,270 --> 00:19:49,200
information laws were brought in and

522
00:19:54,630 --> 00:19:51,280
applied to the doe

523
00:19:57,029 --> 00:19:54,640
and whatever they had i'm told was moved

524
00:19:59,830 --> 00:19:57,039
out of the doe and put into the auspices

525
00:20:02,070 --> 00:19:59,840
of a private aerospace company

526
00:20:08,149 --> 00:20:02,080
50 years ago

527
00:20:10,789 --> 00:20:08,159
and uh i think that explains why because

528
00:20:12,310 --> 00:20:10,799
it's not subject to the

529
00:20:15,190 --> 00:20:12,320
i mean if you

530
00:20:17,990 --> 00:20:15,200
look at a document known as the ewd

531
00:20:19,510 --> 00:20:18,000
notes the eric wilson at the eric davis

532
00:20:20,390 --> 00:20:19,520
notes the

533
00:20:27,270 --> 00:20:20,400
wilson

534
00:20:29,510 --> 00:20:27,280
dia denies the document's provenance and

535
00:20:31,270 --> 00:20:29,520
i should say right up front that because

536
00:20:33,110 --> 00:20:31,280
he denies the documents provenance and

537
00:20:34,549 --> 00:20:33,120
because eric davis won't verify the

538
00:20:36,149 --> 00:20:34,559
document's provenance we can't do

539
00:20:38,630 --> 00:20:36,159
anything with it

540
00:20:40,710 --> 00:20:38,640
but if hypothetically that document was

541
00:20:43,190 --> 00:20:40,720
an accurate record of a conversation

542
00:20:45,350 --> 00:20:43,200
between a director of the dia

543
00:20:47,909 --> 00:20:45,360
and eric davis

544
00:20:49,990 --> 00:20:47,919
and hal put off eric davis boss at the

545
00:20:52,789 --> 00:20:50,000
time has said that eric davis did have a

546
00:20:54,789 --> 00:20:52,799
conversation with admiral tom wilson

547
00:20:56,710 --> 00:20:54,799
if admiral tom wilson did have a

548
00:20:58,390 --> 00:20:56,720
conversation with eric davis and if he

549
00:21:00,710 --> 00:20:58,400
made the admissions that are made in

550
00:21:03,029 --> 00:21:00,720
that extraordinary document

551
00:21:04,789 --> 00:21:03,039
then it would verify

552
00:21:07,029 --> 00:21:04,799
that

553
00:21:10,070 --> 00:21:07,039
the cover-up is kept from

554
00:21:11,270 --> 00:21:10,080
the person who is most allowed to know

555
00:21:13,029 --> 00:21:11,280
everything

556
00:21:14,070 --> 00:21:13,039
in the united states government the

557
00:21:19,029 --> 00:21:14,080
president

558
00:21:21,909 --> 00:21:19,039
and that contrary to

559
00:21:24,870 --> 00:21:21,919
what is normally the case

560
00:21:27,029 --> 00:21:24,880
where special access programs the most

561
00:21:31,029 --> 00:21:27,039
you know the most uh secret secrets of

562
00:21:34,070 --> 00:21:31,039
all in the us government are normally

563
00:21:35,750 --> 00:21:34,080
oversighted if they're super secret by a

564
00:21:38,870 --> 00:21:35,760
special committee called the special

565
00:21:39,909 --> 00:21:38,880
access program oversight committee

566
00:21:40,710 --> 00:21:39,919
and

567
00:21:43,270 --> 00:21:40,720
the

568
00:21:45,110 --> 00:21:43,280
waived unacknowledged special access

569
00:21:47,990 --> 00:21:45,120
programs which are the most super super

570
00:21:49,510 --> 00:21:48,000
super secrets of all

571
00:21:50,950 --> 00:21:49,520
not even put on paper and they're

572
00:21:52,870 --> 00:21:50,960
briefed

573
00:21:55,510 --> 00:21:52,880
just to the gang of eight which is a

574
00:21:57,350 --> 00:21:55,520
group of congressmen and senators

575
00:21:59,590 --> 00:21:57,360
in the congress so there's still

576
00:22:02,070 --> 00:21:59,600
oversight of the most intense secrets

577
00:22:04,230 --> 00:22:02,080
inside the u.s military

578
00:22:07,029 --> 00:22:04,240
but i'm told

579
00:22:09,750 --> 00:22:07,039
that what we're talking about here

580
00:22:11,990 --> 00:22:09,760
doesn't even fall within that oversight

581
00:22:14,789 --> 00:22:12,000
it's been kept from the oversight

582
00:22:16,470 --> 00:22:14,799
controls of the congress which is

583
00:22:18,710 --> 00:22:16,480
illegal

584
00:22:21,029 --> 00:22:18,720
possibly a contempt of congress

585
00:22:22,390 --> 00:22:21,039
a crime

586
00:22:24,070 --> 00:22:22,400
this is why

587
00:22:26,310 --> 00:22:24,080
christopher mellon

588
00:22:27,830 --> 00:22:26,320
and louis lozando

589
00:22:30,149 --> 00:22:27,840
are

590
00:22:32,390 --> 00:22:30,159
so determined to try to push for

591
00:22:34,310 --> 00:22:32,400
congressional hearings

592
00:22:36,789 --> 00:22:34,320
because i've spoken to some of the

593
00:22:39,350 --> 00:22:36,799
people who've been approached to give

594
00:22:41,350 --> 00:22:39,360
evidence for congressional hearings

595
00:22:42,630 --> 00:22:41,360
and if they are given assurances that

596
00:22:45,190 --> 00:22:42,640
they are

597
00:22:47,750 --> 00:22:45,200
allowed to breach their secrecy oath if

598
00:22:49,830 --> 00:22:47,760
the president signs a warrant saying an

599
00:22:51,270 --> 00:22:49,840
executive order saying you are hereby

600
00:22:53,430 --> 00:22:51,280
released

601
00:22:55,990 --> 00:22:53,440
from your oath of secrecy and you can

602
00:22:56,950 --> 00:22:56,000
tell the american public under oath what

603
00:22:57,830 --> 00:22:56,960
you know

604
00:22:59,830 --> 00:22:57,840
about

605
00:23:02,070 --> 00:22:59,840
the program

606
00:23:04,310 --> 00:23:02,080
i think there will be some astonishing

607
00:23:06,390 --> 00:23:04,320
admissions made and

608
00:23:09,029 --> 00:23:06,400
for reasons i find a little complex and

609
00:23:11,350 --> 00:23:09,039
hard to understand louis lozando chris

610
00:23:13,029 --> 00:23:11,360
mellon and others seem very very certain

611
00:23:14,789 --> 00:23:13,039
that those hearings are going to happen

612
00:23:16,390 --> 00:23:14,799
that's not my reading of congress to be

613
00:23:17,990 --> 00:23:16,400
honest with you i actually don't think

614
00:23:20,549 --> 00:23:18,000
hearings are going to happen i don't

615
00:23:23,029 --> 00:23:20,559
think they ever will happen

616
00:23:24,470 --> 00:23:23,039
but the bottom line is in short answer

617
00:23:25,350 --> 00:23:24,480
anna i think

618
00:23:28,230 --> 00:23:25,360
the

619
00:23:31,029 --> 00:23:28,240
secret is buried so deep far away from

620
00:23:33,270 --> 00:23:31,039
the scrutiny of the traditional

621
00:23:35,350 --> 00:23:33,280
legal oversight

622
00:23:36,870 --> 00:23:35,360
capacities of the congress

623
00:23:38,789 --> 00:23:36,880
that

624
00:23:40,470 --> 00:23:38,799
it may very well be there's an executive

625
00:23:44,230 --> 00:23:40,480
order going back to truman or

626
00:23:47,110 --> 00:23:44,240
eisenhower's time that has allowed this

627
00:23:50,230 --> 00:23:47,120
perceived illegality to be legal because

628
00:23:53,190 --> 00:23:50,240
i i find it gobsmacking if it really is

629
00:23:55,430 --> 00:23:53,200
the case as i've been told by people

630
00:23:56,149 --> 00:23:55,440
that this is a secret that is being kept

631
00:23:57,830 --> 00:23:56,159
in

632
00:24:00,230 --> 00:23:57,840
private aerospace

633
00:24:01,990 --> 00:24:00,240
only known about by a very very small

634
00:24:04,310 --> 00:24:02,000
number of people inside the us

635
00:24:06,549 --> 00:24:04,320
government and certainly not

636
00:24:09,430 --> 00:24:06,559
automatically by presidents only a few

637
00:24:11,590 --> 00:24:09,440
presidents being briefed into it

638
00:24:13,909 --> 00:24:11,600
then how the hell would christopher

639
00:24:17,269 --> 00:24:13,919
mellon have got to know about it

640
00:24:19,750 --> 00:24:17,279
you know he was a committee flunky and

641
00:24:22,310 --> 00:24:19,760
fairly senior defence official but if

642
00:24:24,470 --> 00:24:22,320
you're not read into a program you're

643
00:24:27,669 --> 00:24:24,480
not allowed to know about it

644
00:24:30,470 --> 00:24:27,679
i mean matt kobets the head of navy

645
00:24:33,750 --> 00:24:30,480
science technology development

646
00:24:35,750 --> 00:24:33,760
was only read into the program when it

647
00:24:37,669 --> 00:24:35,760
was decided that he needed to be told

648
00:24:38,789 --> 00:24:37,679
and he was the chief geek for the us

649
00:24:41,350 --> 00:24:38,799
navy

650
00:24:44,390 --> 00:24:41,360
and even then he didn't get to see

651
00:24:46,630 --> 00:24:44,400
the objects the craft as he called them

652
00:24:48,630 --> 00:24:46,640
but he was shown

653
00:24:50,630 --> 00:24:48,640
bits of a craft and that's possibly why

654
00:24:52,950 --> 00:24:50,640
he was read in at some stage because

655
00:24:55,029 --> 00:24:52,960
they wanted him to analyze and use his

656
00:24:57,110 --> 00:24:55,039
skills to to assess

657
00:24:59,590 --> 00:24:57,120
technology to see if there was a way

658
00:25:02,149 --> 00:24:59,600
that they could replicate it perhaps

659
00:25:03,830 --> 00:25:02,159
but yeah i mean i i

660
00:25:06,310 --> 00:25:03,840
you know let's hypothetically assume

661
00:25:09,110 --> 00:25:06,320
that they are hiding something

662
00:25:12,630 --> 00:25:09,120
there are ways of illegally

663
00:25:14,470 --> 00:25:12,640
hiding this that requires evasion of the

664
00:25:17,029 --> 00:25:14,480
traditional oversight

665
00:25:19,830 --> 00:25:17,039
processes of the congress

666
00:25:22,789 --> 00:25:19,840
and if the admiral wilson document the

667
00:25:24,870 --> 00:25:22,799
ewd notes is a fair and accurate

668
00:25:26,950 --> 00:25:24,880
assessment of the reality

669
00:25:29,110 --> 00:25:26,960
which on the balance of probabilities i

670
00:25:31,990 --> 00:25:29,120
suspect it is

671
00:25:33,029 --> 00:25:32,000
then that document acknowledges

672
00:25:35,909 --> 00:25:33,039
that

673
00:25:38,149 --> 00:25:35,919
the secret was kept on a completely

674
00:25:40,789 --> 00:25:38,159
separate database that the code names

675
00:25:42,630 --> 00:25:40,799
that were affecting the program

676
00:25:45,190 --> 00:25:42,640
were kept on a completely separate

677
00:25:47,350 --> 00:25:45,200
database from the database overseen by

678
00:25:49,669 --> 00:25:47,360
the special access program oversight

679
00:25:52,230 --> 00:25:49,679
oversight committee or indeed by the

680
00:25:54,870 --> 00:25:52,240
members of the senior review group

681
00:25:56,870 --> 00:25:54,880
and that arguably even the gang of eight

682
00:25:58,070 --> 00:25:56,880
in congress wouldn't get to know about

683
00:25:59,669 --> 00:25:58,080
it

684
00:26:03,190 --> 00:25:59,679
but guess who was a member of the gang

685
00:26:04,230 --> 00:26:03,200
of eight for many many years

686
00:26:05,269 --> 00:26:04,240
senator

687
00:26:06,470 --> 00:26:05,279
harry

688
00:26:08,310 --> 00:26:06,480
reid

689
00:26:11,269 --> 00:26:08,320
and who's been beating the drum behind

690
00:26:12,470 --> 00:26:11,279
the scenes pushing for disclosure

691
00:26:13,430 --> 00:26:12,480
senator

692
00:26:14,470 --> 00:26:13,440
harry

693
00:26:21,029 --> 00:26:14,480
reid

694
00:26:25,590 --> 00:26:23,590
and final list our question ross from

695
00:26:29,110 --> 00:26:25,600
john he wants to know what your thoughts

696
00:26:31,430 --> 00:26:29,120
are on the alien abduction phenomenon

697
00:26:34,070 --> 00:26:31,440
i don't know it's as simple as that i

698
00:26:36,789 --> 00:26:34,080
had a long chat to melinda leslie who i

699
00:26:39,669 --> 00:26:36,799
respect enormously and i've spoken to

700
00:26:42,230 --> 00:26:39,679
other experiences and

701
00:26:43,990 --> 00:26:42,240
alleged abductees

702
00:26:45,430 --> 00:26:44,000
and frankly i just don't know what to

703
00:26:47,669 --> 00:26:45,440
make of it

704
00:26:48,870 --> 00:26:47,679
and the problem i have as a journalist

705
00:26:52,789 --> 00:26:48,880
is

706
00:26:54,470 --> 00:26:52,799
but

707
00:26:55,990 --> 00:26:54,480
generally in my book i've looked for

708
00:26:57,590 --> 00:26:56,000
corroboration

709
00:26:59,350 --> 00:26:57,600
and so i'm not there in somebody's

710
00:27:00,870 --> 00:26:59,360
bedroom when they say they wake up and

711
00:27:02,549 --> 00:27:00,880
they see a grey at the end of the bed

712
00:27:03,269 --> 00:27:02,559
and they're taken off to a spacecraft

713
00:27:07,430 --> 00:27:03,279
and

714
00:27:09,029 --> 00:27:07,440
know i frankly i just don't know i don't

715
00:27:11,190 --> 00:27:09,039
know what's happening

716
00:27:13,750 --> 00:27:11,200
i'm just in the process of reading ralph

717
00:27:16,230 --> 00:27:13,760
blumenthal's extraordinarily good book

718
00:27:18,549 --> 00:27:16,240
about john mack the harvard professor

719
00:27:21,510 --> 00:27:18,559
who looked at alleged abductions and

720
00:27:22,870 --> 00:27:21,520
john mack a professor and academic of

721
00:27:24,630 --> 00:27:22,880
great renown

722
00:27:26,950 --> 00:27:24,640
believed that the abduction phenomenon

723
00:27:28,630 --> 00:27:26,960
needed to be taken seriously

724
00:27:30,789 --> 00:27:28,640
i certainly believes it needs to be

725
00:27:33,350 --> 00:27:30,799
taken seriously because far too many

726
00:27:35,430 --> 00:27:33,360
people have reported a phenomenon

727
00:27:36,389 --> 00:27:35,440
for so many years

728
00:27:39,430 --> 00:27:36,399
and

729
00:27:41,590 --> 00:27:39,440
the thing that really shocks me is

730
00:27:44,549 --> 00:27:41,600
talking to people like melinda

731
00:27:46,630 --> 00:27:44,559
is the detail that sometimes they have

732
00:27:49,430 --> 00:27:46,640
matches the detail of what other people

733
00:27:51,269 --> 00:27:49,440
independently have described

734
00:27:54,149 --> 00:27:51,279
it perplexes me

735
00:27:56,149 --> 00:27:54,159
and i can't explain it i don't know

736
00:27:59,830 --> 00:27:56,159
what's going on

737
00:28:02,230 --> 00:27:59,840
but i've certainly met people who claim

738
00:28:04,310 --> 00:28:02,240
to be experiences and i'm not going to

739
00:28:06,950 --> 00:28:04,320
dismiss their experience

740
00:28:09,110 --> 00:28:06,960
i just have no way of verifying it if

741
00:28:11,350 --> 00:28:09,120
somebody can give me a way of verifying

742
00:28:12,950 --> 00:28:11,360
it i'm there with bells on

743
00:28:14,950 --> 00:28:12,960
you know i said to one guy who was

744
00:28:17,350 --> 00:28:14,960
claiming to me that he was having

745
00:28:18,549 --> 00:28:17,360
repeated visitations by greys in his

746
00:28:20,789 --> 00:28:18,559
bedroom

747
00:28:22,630 --> 00:28:20,799
i said listen i could set you up a

748
00:28:24,149 --> 00:28:22,640
motion activated camera and he went oh

749
00:28:25,990 --> 00:28:24,159
no i've already got one i've already

750
00:28:28,549 --> 00:28:26,000
tried that

751
00:28:31,430 --> 00:28:28,559
and uh he actually showed me at one

752
00:28:33,510 --> 00:28:31,440
stage this kind of fuzzy image that

753
00:28:34,870 --> 00:28:33,520
really didn't show me much

754
00:28:39,029 --> 00:28:34,880
of

755
00:28:41,269 --> 00:28:39,039
it had recorded something moving through

756
00:28:43,430 --> 00:28:41,279
his room but i don't know what it was

757
00:28:44,950 --> 00:28:43,440
so yeah i mean i've

758
00:28:46,630 --> 00:28:44,960
if you can help me with a way of

759
00:28:48,950 --> 00:28:46,640
corroborating

760
00:28:50,549 --> 00:28:48,960
then i'm there with belzon

761
00:28:51,990 --> 00:28:50,559
but i i can't think of a way of

762
00:28:55,029 --> 00:28:52,000
corroborating it

763
00:28:58,310 --> 00:28:55,039
and the worry is that

764
00:29:01,269 --> 00:28:58,320
i must say i'm inclined to the view that

765
00:29:03,110 --> 00:29:01,279
we shouldn't be dismissive it's like

766
00:29:06,630 --> 00:29:03,120
you know what a case the case i think of

767
00:29:08,549 --> 00:29:06,640
a lot and i i think because my um

768
00:29:09,510 --> 00:29:08,559
my parents for a while lived in this

769
00:29:11,510 --> 00:29:09,520
area

770
00:29:13,669 --> 00:29:11,520
there's that dreadfully sad case of

771
00:29:16,070 --> 00:29:13,679
those little girls who were being raped

772
00:29:17,750 --> 00:29:16,080
is it rotherham in the midlands

773
00:29:19,590 --> 00:29:17,760
somewhere it was a town in the midlands

774
00:29:21,029 --> 00:29:19,600
and it was you know young girls were

775
00:29:23,110 --> 00:29:21,039
going to the cops and saying that they

776
00:29:25,350 --> 00:29:23,120
were being systemically sexually abused

777
00:29:28,070 --> 00:29:25,360
and raped by men and

778
00:29:30,070 --> 00:29:28,080
shocking shocking shocking case

779
00:29:31,510 --> 00:29:30,080
and it's only now about 10 or 15 years

780
00:29:34,149 --> 00:29:31,520
later that the perpetrators have all

781
00:29:37,350 --> 00:29:34,159
been brought to justice and it turns out

782
00:29:39,830 --> 00:29:37,360
that there really was this systemic

783
00:29:42,789 --> 00:29:39,840
pedophile ring of men that got off on

784
00:29:44,870 --> 00:29:42,799
raping little girls and it was horrific

785
00:29:47,269 --> 00:29:44,880
and these girls were going to the police

786
00:29:50,389 --> 00:29:47,279
and independently giving their evidence

787
00:29:52,630 --> 00:29:50,399
and being treated in isolation as

788
00:29:53,590 --> 00:29:52,640
witnesses are treated

789
00:29:55,830 --> 00:29:53,600
and

790
00:29:58,070 --> 00:29:55,840
frankly nobody was doing the work

791
00:30:00,310 --> 00:29:58,080
or maybe they were worse covering up

792
00:30:01,830 --> 00:30:00,320
to actually say look i've had four girls

793
00:30:03,269 --> 00:30:01,840
saying the same thing to me in the past

794
00:30:06,630 --> 00:30:03,279
month

795
00:30:08,870 --> 00:30:06,640
and in the case of abductions

796
00:30:10,710 --> 00:30:08,880
or experiences

797
00:30:11,830 --> 00:30:10,720
you know you can't ignore the fact that

798
00:30:13,990 --> 00:30:11,840
there are

799
00:30:15,190 --> 00:30:14,000
a large number of people who are

800
00:30:17,830 --> 00:30:15,200
claiming

801
00:30:20,230 --> 00:30:17,840
this abduction experience

802
00:30:23,830 --> 00:30:20,240
so i'm not saying it's real but i'm not

803
00:30:25,029 --> 00:30:23,840
saying it's not real i just don't know

804
00:30:27,350 --> 00:30:25,039
and

805
00:30:30,389 --> 00:30:27,360
if there's a way of corroborating those

806
00:30:35,990 --> 00:30:30,399
experiences and and verifying them i'd

807
00:30:39,750 --> 00:30:37,830
that probably moves us very nicely onto

808
00:30:42,149 --> 00:30:39,760
the quick fire round ross just to finish

809
00:30:44,230 --> 00:30:42,159
off have you ever been contacted by the

810
00:30:47,510 --> 00:30:44,240
bledsoe family who when you talk of

811
00:30:49,269 --> 00:30:47,520
corroboration claim to have experiences

812
00:30:52,070 --> 00:30:49,279
almost daily and have had a lot of

813
00:30:54,470 --> 00:30:52,080
visitors on their property as well um i

814
00:30:57,110 --> 00:30:54,480
i have approached both ryan and chris

815
00:30:59,110 --> 00:30:57,120
bledslow and they've agreed to talk to

816
00:31:01,750 --> 00:30:59,120
me even when i come to the united states

817
00:31:04,310 --> 00:31:01,760
next um i was hoping to include them in

818
00:31:06,070 --> 00:31:04,320
my documentary but costs and time

819
00:31:08,149 --> 00:31:06,080
constraints meant that i couldn't get

820
00:31:12,070 --> 00:31:08,159
down to where they live but yes i am

821
00:31:14,630 --> 00:31:12,080
hoping to talk to chris uh

822
00:31:16,789 --> 00:31:14,640
i i would love to talk to him and i

823
00:31:18,310 --> 00:31:16,799
would also love to talk to the members

824
00:31:20,549 --> 00:31:18,320
of his family who can independently

825
00:31:24,789 --> 00:31:20,559
corroborate what he says he's seen and

826
00:31:26,389 --> 00:31:24,799
photographed it sounds pretty weird

827
00:31:27,669 --> 00:31:26,399
i'd also like by the way to get a skin

828
00:31:38,789 --> 00:31:27,679
walker ranch

829
00:31:42,870 --> 00:31:40,230
what's happening in australia's north

830
00:31:44,870 --> 00:31:42,880
west cape is very similar to what is

831
00:31:47,990 --> 00:31:44,880
happening at skinwalker raj

832
00:31:50,310 --> 00:31:48,000
uh because locals in northwest cape the

833
00:31:53,029 --> 00:31:50,320
place where i write about the harold e

834
00:31:56,230 --> 00:31:53,039
holt naval communications station where

835
00:31:58,870 --> 00:31:56,240
there's been a a plethora of paranormal

836
00:32:02,470 --> 00:31:58,880
phenomena and anomalous sightings of

837
00:32:04,870 --> 00:32:02,480
weird craft weird hovering objects

838
00:32:06,549 --> 00:32:04,880
it it sounds very similar to what has

839
00:32:07,750 --> 00:32:06,559
been described in george knapp's

840
00:32:09,669 --> 00:32:07,760
excellent book

841
00:32:10,950 --> 00:32:09,679
about skinwalker ranch the hunt for the

842
00:32:12,149 --> 00:32:10,960
skinwalker

843
00:32:13,669 --> 00:32:12,159
and so

844
00:32:16,549 --> 00:32:13,679
yeah that's another place i'd love to go

845
00:32:18,710 --> 00:32:16,559
to uh i've spoken briefly to brendan

846
00:32:20,470 --> 00:32:18,720
fugle and i listened to his interview i

847
00:32:21,669 --> 00:32:20,480
think it was with you guys

848
00:32:25,110 --> 00:32:21,679
and uh

849
00:32:27,669 --> 00:32:25,120
i've watched the slightly sensationalist

850
00:32:29,590 --> 00:32:27,679
it's too sensationalist for my liking tv

851
00:32:31,590 --> 00:32:29,600
series that's been done on

852
00:32:33,350 --> 00:32:31,600
skinwalker ranch uh i think it's a

853
00:32:36,549 --> 00:32:33,360
history channel doco

854
00:32:38,149 --> 00:32:36,559
but um yeah i mean i i'm persuaded to

855
00:32:40,630 --> 00:32:38,159
the fact that there is an anomalous

856
00:32:42,710 --> 00:32:40,640
phenomenon that's occurring there and

857
00:32:44,549 --> 00:32:42,720
i love the way that the skeptics assert

858
00:32:46,389 --> 00:32:44,559
well why hasn't it been able to be

859
00:32:49,269 --> 00:32:46,399
captured on film you know why don't we

860
00:32:50,149 --> 00:32:49,279
have absolutely ironclad perfect vision

861
00:32:52,470 --> 00:32:50,159
of it

862
00:32:54,310 --> 00:32:52,480
and the reality is that if you have an

863
00:32:57,590 --> 00:32:54,320
intelligent phenomena that is actually

864
00:32:59,190 --> 00:32:57,600
anticipating and aware of

865
00:33:01,750 --> 00:32:59,200
human presence

866
00:33:04,230 --> 00:33:01,760
of course it can evade detection i mean

867
00:33:05,110 --> 00:33:04,240
one of the things that really amazed me

868
00:33:08,630 --> 00:33:05,120
was

869
00:33:09,909 --> 00:33:08,640
to read in the so-called slide 9 which

870
00:33:12,149 --> 00:33:09,919
i'm sure you've heard about because it

871
00:33:13,509 --> 00:33:12,159
was a great bit of work by a guy from

872
00:33:16,389 --> 00:33:13,519
the um

873
00:33:18,630 --> 00:33:16,399
the uk blog the mind sublime

874
00:33:20,070 --> 00:33:18,640
he found these slides on chris mellon's

875
00:33:21,669 --> 00:33:20,080
website

876
00:33:24,789 --> 00:33:21,679
and

877
00:33:27,269 --> 00:33:24,799
one of the things that the us

878
00:33:29,590 --> 00:33:27,279
under secretary for defence was advised

879
00:33:33,350 --> 00:33:29,600
that the phenomenon was capable of was

880
00:33:37,350 --> 00:33:33,360
instantaneous sensor disassembly

881
00:33:39,830 --> 00:33:37,360
and that's because i'm told the dia

882
00:33:42,230 --> 00:33:39,840
witnessed directly the defense

883
00:33:44,230 --> 00:33:42,240
intelligence agency of the united states

884
00:33:46,389 --> 00:33:44,240
witnessed when it went out to skinwalker

885
00:33:49,990 --> 00:33:46,399
raj

886
00:33:51,830 --> 00:33:50,000
cameras just simultaneously suddenly

887
00:33:54,389 --> 00:33:51,840
having their wires no longer connected

888
00:33:56,630 --> 00:33:54,399
to the camera you know they were

889
00:33:58,310 --> 00:33:56,640
essentially destroyed by

890
00:34:01,029 --> 00:33:58,320
forces unknown

891
00:34:03,830 --> 00:34:01,039
within the frames of a video camera that

892
00:34:05,990 --> 00:34:03,840
was filming that object instantaneously

893
00:34:09,909 --> 00:34:06,000
something happened that caused that

894
00:34:13,669 --> 00:34:11,589
something's going on

895
00:34:14,950 --> 00:34:13,679
do we pooh-pooh it and ignore it because

896
00:34:21,030 --> 00:34:14,960
it's weird

897
00:34:26,389 --> 00:34:23,589
ross do you think ets have ever visited

898
00:34:30,069 --> 00:34:26,399
earth i'd be very surprised if et's

899
00:34:31,430 --> 00:34:30,079
hadn't visited our planet i i i think uh

900
00:34:34,069 --> 00:34:31,440
if you um

901
00:34:36,149 --> 00:34:34,079
follow professor loeb uh who's doing the

902
00:34:38,710 --> 00:34:36,159
galileo project now have you interviewed

903
00:34:41,990 --> 00:34:40,710
you have yeah well i mean i yeah a

904
00:34:44,069 --> 00:34:42,000
couple of times yeah i find him

905
00:34:46,869 --> 00:34:44,079
fascinating because you know he candidly

906
00:34:49,190 --> 00:34:46,879
talks about the absolute likelihood of

907
00:34:52,389 --> 00:34:49,200
life in other planets

908
00:34:54,310 --> 00:34:52,399
and if you look at the uh the uh

909
00:34:55,990 --> 00:34:54,320
the systems that have been created to

910
00:34:58,470 --> 00:34:56,000
predict or the algorithms that have been

911
00:35:00,790 --> 00:34:58,480
created to predict you know the volume

912
00:35:03,109 --> 00:35:00,800
of intelligent life that's out there

913
00:35:05,750 --> 00:35:03,119
you know it's an absolute certainty that

914
00:35:07,510 --> 00:35:05,760
we're surrounded by a universe teeming

915
00:35:10,470 --> 00:35:07,520
with intelligent life

916
00:35:12,790 --> 00:35:10,480
to me the big question is not is there

917
00:35:16,470 --> 00:35:12,800
intelligent life out there but why

918
00:35:18,069 --> 00:35:16,480
hasn't it manifested itself to humanity

919
00:35:20,230 --> 00:35:18,079
uh and

920
00:35:22,390 --> 00:35:20,240
we can only speculate at that

921
00:35:24,069 --> 00:35:22,400
but yeah i mean i wouldn't be surprised

922
00:35:25,390 --> 00:35:24,079
at all if

923
00:35:27,510 --> 00:35:25,400
uh

924
00:35:29,910 --> 00:35:27,520
contemporaneously with my skepticism

925
00:35:32,069 --> 00:35:29,920
about the extraterrestrial hypothesis

926
00:35:33,910 --> 00:35:32,079
the eth being the

927
00:35:36,150 --> 00:35:33,920
most plausible explanation for the

928
00:35:38,550 --> 00:35:36,160
phenomenon i wouldn't be surprised at

929
00:35:40,150 --> 00:35:38,560
all if contemporaneously with

930
00:35:43,430 --> 00:35:40,160
future humans

931
00:35:45,430 --> 00:35:43,440
or some kind of interdimensional

932
00:35:47,750 --> 00:35:45,440
entity that's been manifesting itself on

933
00:35:49,589 --> 00:35:47,760
this planet there are also

934
00:35:51,109 --> 00:35:49,599
non-human life forms that are coming

935
00:35:53,510 --> 00:35:51,119
from other planets

936
00:35:56,069 --> 00:35:53,520
because we do know about the theoretical

937
00:35:58,069 --> 00:35:56,079
possibilities of the alcubierre drive

938
00:36:00,790 --> 00:35:58,079
the idea of a faster than light drive

939
00:36:03,190 --> 00:36:00,800
that can distort space-time and whilst

940
00:36:05,030 --> 00:36:03,200
not going faster than light it is able

941
00:36:06,390 --> 00:36:05,040
to travel through the fabric of space in

942
00:36:07,829 --> 00:36:06,400
a way that

943
00:36:09,750 --> 00:36:07,839
breaks the time

944
00:36:11,589 --> 00:36:09,760
space barrier and

945
00:36:13,349 --> 00:36:11,599
gets across the universe

946
00:36:14,310 --> 00:36:13,359
theoretically that's theoretically

947
00:36:19,670 --> 00:36:14,320
possible

948
00:36:21,910 --> 00:36:19,680
according to known science that we may

949
00:36:23,349 --> 00:36:21,920
indeed be on the cusp of an astonishing

950
00:36:26,150 --> 00:36:23,359
discovery

951
00:36:27,750 --> 00:36:26,160
that they've been coming here for years

952
00:36:34,069 --> 00:36:27,760
and

953
00:36:37,910 --> 00:36:36,630
ross two more do you prefer the term ufo

954
00:36:41,430 --> 00:36:37,920
or uap

955
00:36:44,550 --> 00:36:41,440
i think ufo is so stigmatized it's

956
00:36:46,950 --> 00:36:44,560
immediately a word that makes people

957
00:36:49,190 --> 00:36:46,960
think of flying saucers and little green

958
00:36:50,390 --> 00:36:49,200
men hollywood's had so much fun with

959
00:36:52,470 --> 00:36:50,400
ufos

960
00:36:54,710 --> 00:36:52,480
um you know i remember watching a

961
00:36:57,829 --> 00:36:54,720
fantastic series on british television

962
00:37:00,950 --> 00:36:57,839
called ufo in the 1970s and it scared

963
00:37:01,670 --> 00:37:00,960
the hell out of me as a little boy

964
00:37:04,150 --> 00:37:01,680
but

965
00:37:07,270 --> 00:37:04,160
i i you know i think

966
00:37:10,390 --> 00:37:07,280
a more neutral term is

967
00:37:11,990 --> 00:37:10,400
identified aerial phenomena

968
00:37:14,390 --> 00:37:12,000
uh because

969
00:37:16,150 --> 00:37:14,400
it's not stating categorically that this

970
00:37:18,790 --> 00:37:16,160
is a craft

971
00:37:21,349 --> 00:37:18,800
and indeed aerial phenomena is a little

972
00:37:25,270 --> 00:37:21,359
bit misleading because i'm told that

973
00:37:26,470 --> 00:37:25,280
there is also usos underwater submerged

974
00:37:29,190 --> 00:37:26,480
objects

975
00:37:31,750 --> 00:37:29,200
and i suppose you could call them

976
00:37:34,710 --> 00:37:31,760
unidentified orbital

977
00:37:36,790 --> 00:37:34,720
objects as well oohs

978
00:37:38,630 --> 00:37:36,800
because uh you know i've spoken to

979
00:37:40,950 --> 00:37:38,640
people in australia's defense department

980
00:37:42,790 --> 00:37:40,960
who've told me that they are involved in

981
00:37:45,510 --> 00:37:42,800
the monitoring of space objects and they

982
00:37:46,710 --> 00:37:45,520
quite regularly see objects that are

983
00:37:49,270 --> 00:37:46,720
defying

984
00:37:51,349 --> 00:37:49,280
the predicted trajectories of known

985
00:37:53,750 --> 00:37:51,359
space objects they're not satellites and

986
00:37:55,349 --> 00:37:53,760
they're not space debris and they appear

987
00:37:56,470 --> 00:37:55,359
to be maneuvering under intelligent

988
00:38:02,230 --> 00:37:56,480
control

989
00:38:05,510 --> 00:38:04,390
finally ross what does disclosure mean

990
00:38:07,910 --> 00:38:05,520
to you

991
00:38:10,390 --> 00:38:07,920
well in some degree to some extent we've

992
00:38:13,349 --> 00:38:10,400
already had disclosure the united states

993
00:38:16,230 --> 00:38:13,359
government has admitted after

994
00:38:21,030 --> 00:38:16,240
60 years of lying

995
00:38:21,990 --> 00:38:21,040
that ufos are real uaps are real

996
00:38:25,109 --> 00:38:22,000
and

997
00:38:26,630 --> 00:38:25,119
they are a national security concern

998
00:38:29,270 --> 00:38:26,640
because if you remember back at the end

999
00:38:31,589 --> 00:38:29,280
of project blue book we were told

1000
00:38:34,790 --> 00:38:31,599
that there was absolutely no truth

1001
00:38:36,630 --> 00:38:34,800
really to the ufo the uap phenomenon we

1002
00:38:39,430 --> 00:38:36,640
were told that whatever they were they

1003
00:38:41,910 --> 00:38:39,440
were more often than not misidentified

1004
00:38:44,150 --> 00:38:41,920
aircraft anomalous weather phenomena

1005
00:38:46,069 --> 00:38:44,160
nothing to get excited about and they

1006
00:38:47,990 --> 00:38:46,079
certainly posed no threat to u.s

1007
00:38:49,109 --> 00:38:48,000
national security

1008
00:38:50,870 --> 00:38:49,119
and then

1009
00:38:52,390 --> 00:38:50,880
last year and this year you've had these

1010
00:38:53,829 --> 00:38:52,400
momentous announcements from the

1011
00:38:56,710 --> 00:38:53,839
pentagon where they've essentially

1012
00:38:58,470 --> 00:38:56,720
admitted that uaps are real

1013
00:39:00,630 --> 00:38:58,480
they're unexplained

1014
00:39:03,109 --> 00:39:00,640
they're doing the five observables

1015
00:39:04,710 --> 00:39:03,119
particularly hypersonic maneuvers tens

1016
00:39:07,349 --> 00:39:04,720
of thousands of kilometers an hour

1017
00:39:09,109 --> 00:39:07,359
they're tracked on radar they're solid

1018
00:39:10,630 --> 00:39:09,119
people like louis lozando are using the

1019
00:39:12,150 --> 00:39:10,640
word craft

1020
00:39:14,870 --> 00:39:12,160
vehicle

1021
00:39:15,750 --> 00:39:14,880
this is unknown territory for us you

1022
00:39:17,990 --> 00:39:15,760
know th

1023
00:39:19,750 --> 00:39:18,000
this is real these concessions are

1024
00:39:22,390 --> 00:39:19,760
extraordinary

1025
00:39:23,910 --> 00:39:22,400
so to some extent i guess disclosure has

1026
00:39:24,710 --> 00:39:23,920
already happened

1027
00:39:27,190 --> 00:39:24,720
but

1028
00:39:29,910 --> 00:39:27,200
i guess in the long run in my book

1029
00:39:33,430 --> 00:39:29,920
disclosure would be the us government

1030
00:39:36,230 --> 00:39:33,440
admitting what it knows and why i think

1031
00:39:38,470 --> 00:39:36,240
the more important question is why did

1032
00:39:40,950 --> 00:39:38,480
it keep it secret

1033
00:39:43,990 --> 00:39:40,960
that's what i want to know most of all

1034
00:39:47,030 --> 00:39:44,000
i like to think the best of

1035
00:39:48,870 --> 00:39:47,040
people who control the secrets you know

1036
00:39:51,349 --> 00:39:48,880
as a younger man i was far more

1037
00:39:53,750 --> 00:39:51,359
suspicious to the notion that people in

1038
00:39:56,710 --> 00:39:53,760
our intelligence services were either

1039
00:39:58,870 --> 00:39:56,720
evil or incompetent and i've done i've

1040
00:40:00,630 --> 00:39:58,880
been privileged to do stories in my

1041
00:40:02,630 --> 00:40:00,640
career where i've had briefings from

1042
00:40:04,309 --> 00:40:02,640
defence officials at a very high level

1043
00:40:06,630 --> 00:40:04,319
intelligence officials at a very high

1044
00:40:08,309 --> 00:40:06,640
level and i've been able to test

1045
00:40:10,550 --> 00:40:08,319
allegations that are in the public

1046
00:40:12,950 --> 00:40:10,560
domain and i've been able to essentially

1047
00:40:15,829 --> 00:40:12,960
disprove them in my mind you know our

1048
00:40:18,630 --> 00:40:15,839
fears are often misplaced about the

1049
00:40:19,589 --> 00:40:18,640
technology that we entrust officials

1050
00:40:21,430 --> 00:40:19,599
with

1051
00:40:22,630 --> 00:40:21,440
but at the same time you know i think

1052
00:40:24,390 --> 00:40:22,640
one of the things that should be

1053
00:40:27,109 --> 00:40:24,400
investigated and should be acknowledged

1054
00:40:32,790 --> 00:40:29,109
you know it is outrageous that the

1055
00:40:35,910 --> 00:40:32,800
united states government misused the

1056
00:40:37,829 --> 00:40:35,920
lawful interception laws to essentially

1057
00:40:39,030 --> 00:40:37,839
conduct mass surveillance on the u.s

1058
00:40:40,950 --> 00:40:39,040
population

1059
00:40:43,109 --> 00:40:40,960
so every now and then people do go off

1060
00:40:44,790 --> 00:40:43,119
reservation they do break rules they do

1061
00:40:45,910 --> 00:40:44,800
break laws

1062
00:40:48,790 --> 00:40:45,920
but um

1063
00:40:51,910 --> 00:40:48,800
yeah i mean i like to think the best of

1064
00:40:53,030 --> 00:40:51,920
authority and i like to think i like to

1065
00:40:55,750 --> 00:40:53,040
give

1066
00:40:58,150 --> 00:40:55,760
officials an opportunity to explain

1067
00:41:01,510 --> 00:40:58,160
why things have been kept secret

1068
00:41:04,150 --> 00:41:01,520
so for disclosure for me is revealing

1069
00:41:06,950 --> 00:41:04,160
what they know about the phenomenon

1070
00:41:08,710 --> 00:41:06,960
do they have retrieved technology

1071
00:41:10,950 --> 00:41:08,720
because it's not enough

1072
00:41:13,670 --> 00:41:10,960
i think the risk is at the moment that

1073
00:41:15,430 --> 00:41:13,680
there's an effort on and i know there is

1074
00:41:17,109 --> 00:41:15,440
because i've been told that there is

1075
00:41:19,430 --> 00:41:17,119
there is an effort on to try and

1076
00:41:21,270 --> 00:41:19,440
constrain the narrative this is why the

1077
00:41:23,910 --> 00:41:21,280
uap task force started its

1078
00:41:27,030 --> 00:41:23,920
investigations from 2004.

1079
00:41:29,270 --> 00:41:27,040
this is why they've only looked at 144

1080
00:41:31,349 --> 00:41:29,280
incidents since that period which are

1081
00:41:34,390 --> 00:41:31,359
essentially sightings by military and in

1082
00:41:36,230 --> 00:41:34,400
some cases commercial pilots 143 of

1083
00:41:37,990 --> 00:41:36,240
those being unexplained

1084
00:41:40,069 --> 00:41:38,000
and so the us government wants to leave

1085
00:41:42,069 --> 00:41:40,079
it at that i'm told they just basically

1086
00:41:44,069 --> 00:41:42,079
want to leave you the public with the

1087
00:41:46,550 --> 00:41:44,079
notion that yes we've now acknowledged

1088
00:41:48,630 --> 00:41:46,560
that there is a genuine mystery here and

1089
00:41:50,790 --> 00:41:48,640
leave us alone for another 75 years

1090
00:41:52,390 --> 00:41:50,800
while we dither and go away and try and

1091
00:41:53,990 --> 00:41:52,400
find out what it is

1092
00:41:55,990 --> 00:41:54,000
when in fact we all know that they're

1093
00:41:58,390 --> 00:41:56,000
sitting on extraordinary information

1094
00:41:59,670 --> 00:41:58,400
extraordinary videos lou elizondo has

1095
00:42:01,589 --> 00:41:59,680
said as much

1096
00:42:03,349 --> 00:42:01,599
and they should release that that's

1097
00:42:04,950 --> 00:42:03,359
disclosure in my book

1098
00:42:07,589 --> 00:42:04,960
but more importantly as well as

1099
00:42:09,670 --> 00:42:07,599
disclosing what they know about that and

1100
00:42:12,470 --> 00:42:09,680
about retrieved craft is there any truth

1101
00:42:13,750 --> 00:42:12,480
to that claim they have to explain why

1102
00:42:15,190 --> 00:42:13,760
they lied

1103
00:42:18,470 --> 00:42:15,200
what do they know

1104
00:42:26,630 --> 00:42:18,480
that justifies why they lied

1105
00:42:29,750 --> 00:42:28,150
ross it's been an absolute pleasure

1106
00:42:31,109 --> 00:42:29,760
having you on the podcast can you just

1107
00:42:33,030 --> 00:42:31,119
let people know what is next for

1108
00:42:33,990 --> 00:42:33,040
yourself how people can follow you and

1109
00:42:36,150 --> 00:42:34,000
of course

1110
00:42:41,910 --> 00:42:36,160
okay well i'm on twitter at ross

1111
00:42:49,910 --> 00:42:44,710
uh i do a lot of tweeting uh i'm also on

1112
00:42:58,069 --> 00:42:52,950
and for my book in plain sight i have a

1113
00:43:00,309 --> 00:42:58,079
website w w w dot in plain sight hyphen

1114
00:43:02,470 --> 00:43:00,319
book.com

1115
00:43:04,309 --> 00:43:02,480
and look if you google me you'll find me

1116
00:43:06,470 --> 00:43:04,319
on different platforms i'm sure you can

1117
00:43:09,349 --> 00:43:06,480
track me down but yeah i'm really happy

1118
00:43:10,550 --> 00:43:09,359
to hear from people and i am doing more

1119
00:43:12,550 --> 00:43:10,560
digging i've had

1120
00:43:14,069 --> 00:43:12,560
an extraordinary amount of information

1121
00:43:17,190 --> 00:43:14,079
come in the door

1122
00:43:19,270 --> 00:43:17,200
and the lovely thing about it is the uap

1123
00:43:21,510 --> 00:43:19,280
documentary that we made the ufo

1124
00:43:23,670 --> 00:43:21,520
phenomenon is available for free on

1125
00:43:25,750 --> 00:43:23,680
youtube and channel 7 australia took a

1126
00:43:27,030 --> 00:43:25,760
huge punt by putting it up there because

1127
00:43:29,190 --> 00:43:27,040
they were

1128
00:43:31,589 --> 00:43:29,200
interested in probably selling it to

1129
00:43:33,910 --> 00:43:31,599
free-to-air television networks but

1130
00:43:35,990 --> 00:43:33,920
i think they've learned a lesson from

1131
00:43:38,309 --> 00:43:36,000
the degree of interest internationally i

1132
00:43:42,309 --> 00:43:38,319
think we've now had close to five

1133
00:43:43,829 --> 00:43:42,319
million views of that film on youtube

1134
00:43:45,510 --> 00:43:43,839
in different formats i think we've put

1135
00:43:47,349 --> 00:43:45,520
it up a couple of times

1136
00:43:48,710 --> 00:43:47,359
so the public have made it very very

1137
00:43:50,710 --> 00:43:48,720
clear that they're interested in this

1138
00:43:53,430 --> 00:43:50,720
subject matter and so

1139
00:43:57,270 --> 00:43:53,440
my bosses my editors are saying hey

1140
00:43:59,510 --> 00:43:57,280
roscoe we want more good well-told ufo

1141
00:44:00,470 --> 00:43:59,520
uap stories have you got any more in the

1142
00:44:03,030 --> 00:44:00,480
box

1143
00:44:04,550 --> 00:44:03,040
so that's what i'm doing so i'm very

1144
00:44:06,829 --> 00:44:04,560
interested in

1145
00:44:08,390 --> 00:44:06,839
doing careful

1146
00:44:10,950 --> 00:44:08,400
resourced

1147
00:44:13,829 --> 00:44:10,960
well-funded investigative journalism

1148
00:44:15,670 --> 00:44:13,839
that objectively analyzes the phenomena

1149
00:44:17,990 --> 00:44:15,680
and that's what i've tried to do with my

1150
00:44:19,430 --> 00:44:18,000
book in plain sight

1151
00:44:20,790 --> 00:44:19,440
and that's what i've also tried to do

1152
00:44:23,430 --> 00:44:20,800
with my film

1153
00:44:24,790 --> 00:44:23,440
the ufo phenomenon and i'm really

1154
00:44:26,390 --> 00:44:24,800
pleased to hear that your viewers

1155
00:44:28,150 --> 00:44:26,400
appreciate it and your listeners

1156
00:44:30,470 --> 00:44:28,160
appreciate it because it means an awful

1157
00:44:33,349 --> 00:44:30,480
lot to me

1158
00:44:35,430 --> 00:44:33,359
no thank you ross thanks for your time

1159
00:44:37,430 --> 00:44:35,440
that is all for this week's show thank

1160
00:44:39,589 --> 00:44:37,440
you very much for listening please

1161
00:44:42,069 --> 00:44:39,599
remember to leave the podcast review on

1162
00:44:44,390 --> 00:44:42,079
your chosen platform you can like

1163
00:44:46,309 --> 00:44:44,400
retweet and subscribe that would all be

1164
00:44:48,470 --> 00:44:46,319
very much appreciated the shows are

1165
00:44:49,990 --> 00:44:48,480
being uploaded onto youtube as we speak

1166
00:44:52,470 --> 00:44:50,000
more and more you can sign up at

1167
00:44:55,190 --> 00:44:52,480
patreon.com forward slash that ufo

1168
00:44:57,430 --> 00:44:55,200
podcast to access shows ad free as well

1169
00:45:00,309 --> 00:44:57,440
please get in touch on twitter facebook

1170
00:45:03,910 --> 00:45:00,319
instagram that ufo podcast of course on

1171
00:45:05,910 --> 00:45:03,920
twitter it's at ufo uap am and again

1172
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:05,920
folks as always keep looking up you

1173
00:45:29,030 --> 00:45:08,690
never know what you might see

1174
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:35,730
is

1175
00:45:35,740 --> 00:45:44,710
[Music]

1176
00:45:47,829 --> 00:45:46,150
i can't imagine how it could have been

1177
00:46:05,510 --> 00:45:47,839
any better i got to the top of the

1178
00:46:08,470 --> 00:46:06,790
there was something on my head and

1179
00:46:10,230 --> 00:46:08,480
everything was weird and everything was

1180
00:46:11,589 --> 00:46:10,240
red i helped out my boys they thought

1181
00:46:16,900 --> 00:46:11,599
this was noise they thought it was a

1182
00:46:28,470 --> 00:46:24,040
[Music]

1183
00:46:31,270 --> 00:46:28,480
if you really want to know who i think

1184
00:46:35,270 --> 00:46:31,280
it's you and me and us and me and him

1185
00:46:43,910 --> 00:46:35,280
and her and she

1186
00:47:06,870 --> 00:46:43,920
[Music]

1187
00:47:14,230 --> 00:47:08,310
is

1188
00:47:16,150 --> 00:47:14,240
[Music]

1189
00:47:22,950 --> 00:47:16,160
it wasn't a tic tac and not quite a

1190
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:36,790
[Music]

1191
00:48:03,030 --> 00:47:38,930
it's